Subtitle position in bluray ISO

[denada]

Hi All,

I have another question for you lucky HDI 3.0 owners out there.. I created some bluray ISO files and with TSMuxer I muxed in some subtitles with the default 24 offset from the bottom of the screen. I can play these bluray images from bd-r disc on a pioneer bd-lx51 or on windvd pro 10 perfectly, there is enough space between the subtitle position and the bottom of the screen.

Now when I play the iso image from the BDI prime 3.0 unit, I noticed the bottom of the subtitles is being cut off, it does not completely show the subtitle on screen..

With MKV or M2TS files theres no problem with the subtitles, only with the isos muxed with subs in them..

Anyone else noticed this on their 3.0 HDI players?

thanks for your time!

[Hi-Jack]

Could it be your zoom values or ratio are causing this? If the subtitles are muxed inside the movie, they are actually part of the movie (burned in) and neither player will affect the display of the subtitles...

Check your settings.

[MrKolek]

Hi All

I also used TsMuxer to add srt. subtittles to BD Iso.
Everything works with the settings:
Font size 50
Bottom offset, pixels 27

MrKolek

[denada]

Hi All

I also used TsMuxer to add srt. subtittles to BD Iso.
Everything works with the settings:
Font size 50
Bottom offset, pixels 27

MrKolek

Thats only a slightly smaller sub, with three pixels more space, guess my offset of 24 shouldnt be a problem either then, thanks for your feedback..

[Malignant]

Sounds like an overscan problem.

I have the same problem with some WMVHD files with hardcoded subs in them.

There are two ways to solve this.

Either adjust the settings on your TV so that it doesn't overscan.
Samsung TV's have a funciton called "Just scan" wich sets the display to 1:1 pixel mapping mode. Pretty much all major brands have a function like this, only unfortunately there is no standard name for this function.

Or play the file with your Dune and set the zoom ratio to "custom"
And then with the P+/P- button compensate for the overscan.
You should aim for something around -5%

The dune displays a 1:1 image, so 1920x1080p will be put out exacly at that resolution.
Displays use overscan by default, this is to compensate for noise on the edge of the screen wich can occur with television broadcasts. This is most of the time a value of 5%. 5% is approximately 54 pixels cut from the horizontal image. So this would put your subs in the cut off zone. (27 bottom & 27 top )

For more information & explanation check wikipedia :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan

[denada]

Sounds like an overscan problem.

I have the same problem with some WMVHD files with hardcoded subs in them.

There are two ways to solve this.

Either adjust the settings on your TV so that it doesn't overscan.
Samsung TV's have a funciton called "Just scan" wich sets the display to 1:1 pixel mapping mode. Pretty much all major brands have a function like this, only unfortunately there is no standard name for this function.

Or play the file with your Dune and set the zoom ratio to "custom"
And then with the P+/P- button compensate for the overscan.
You should aim for something around -5%

The dune displays a 1:1 image, so 1920x1080p will be put out exacly at that resolution.
Displays use overscan by default, this is to compensate for noise on the edge of the screen wich can occur with television broadcasts. This is most of the time a value of 5%. 5% is approximately 54 pixels cut from the horizontal image. So this would put your subs in the cut off zone. (27 bottom & 27 top )

For more information & explanation check wikipedia :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan

Thanks very much for that explanation, gonna give that a try!

[denada]

Thanks very much for that explanation, gonna give that a try!

Hmm been looking trough the menus, but i cannot seem to find a way to compensate the overscan of the tv with custom zoom ratio, any idea where to find this in the menus, could it be that this is not yet implemented for playback of Bluray ISOs ?

Thanks for your time!

[0xdeadbeef]

I sure hope the Dune has no overscan and a modern TV (Plasma/LCD) shouldn't have an overscan either. At least not for digital HD inputs.

This being said: the subtitles muxed into an M2TS are not closed captions ("burned in"). The PGS (presentation graphics stream) format is based on bitmaps and also defines the on screen position where the captions should be displayed.

So there is a chance that the player alters these positions by intention or by accident. E.g. the latest Philips BD players are able to move the captions inside the cinemascope format for their 21:9 LCD.

[denada]

I sure hope the Dune has no overscan and a modern TV (Plasma/LCD) shouldn't have an overscan either. At least not for digital HD inputs.

This being said: the subtitles muxed into an M2TS are not closed captions ("burned in"). The PGS (presentation graphics stream) format is based on bitmaps and also defines the on screen position where the captions should be displayed.

So there is a chance that the player alters these positions by intention or by accident. E.g. the latest Philips BD players are able to move the captions inside the cinemascope format for their 21:9 LCD.

Hmm ok, that could be the case maybe, I muxed an .srt file into a bluray structure, and that makes it a PGS, from that bluray structure I created the ISO with imageburn, the dune 3.0 prime is connected via HDMI to a Panasonic plasma screen. An offset of 24 from the bottom shouldnt get the subtitles to be all in the bottom of the screen I guess and even not displaying them completely but cutting off the lower part of them..

[Malignant]

Hmm been looking trough the menus, but i cannot seem to find a way to compensate the overscan of the tv with custom zoom ratio, any idea where to find this in the menus, could it be that this is not yet implemented for playback of Bluray ISOs ?

Thanks for your time!

It is not called overscan on the dune.
Can't remember the exact name, and i can't check because i'm at work.

But while playing a file hit the zoom button a few times until you get to the "custom" zoom mode.

Here you can adjust the picture size etc.
With the arrows you can fool around a bit with the aspect ratio.

But with the P+ & P- buttons on your dune remote you can compensate for overscan.
Just set the value at 5% and you are in the safe zone again.

If you set it higher that 7% you will start to notice black edges around the video being displayed, then you are underscanning to much.

It is not the Dune that does the overscanning. The dune displays a 1:1 image.
In most cases it's the display that does the overscan.
And yes new TV's still overscan.
This is needed to get rid of edge noise on analog broadcasts and on DVD's.
You must have seen that famous green bar on the edge of the screen sometimes when watching a DVD :) And consumers just don't want to see any edges on their TV displays, the entire screen must be used.
Found another source explaining it really nice, and with lost of pictures so you can see what crap there is at the edge of each frame :)

Use the attached image to determine if this is indeed the cause.

Just load it with your dune, it has a 1920x1080 resolution.
If the entire image is displayed you don't have overscan.
Otherwise it will be partially cut off and it will show the percentage of overscan being done.
Speaks pretty much for it's self.

[ziphnor]

I sure hope the Dune has no overscan and a modern TV (Plasma/LCD) shouldn't have an overscan either. At least not for digital HD inputs.

Actually, i have yet to see a TV that doesnt have overscan enabled by default. But you are correct that most recent TVs have an option to disable overscan.

My Sony rear-pro from 2006 had overscan that could not be disabled. My Pioneer KRP-600M has overscan by default, but fortunately features a dot-by-dot setting to get rid of it.

[denada]

But while playing a file hit the zoom button a few times until you get to the "custom" zoom mode.

Here you can adjust the picture size etc.
With the arrows you can fool around a bit with the aspect ratio.

But with the P+ & P- buttons on your dune remote you can compensate for overscan.
Just set the value at 5% and you are in the safe zone again.

If you set it higher that 7% you will start to notice black edges around the video being displayed, then you are underscanning to much.



Problem with the prime 3.0 is that i cannot use the zoom function while playing a Bluray ISO, its is allowed with mkv or m2ts files, but when I hit the zoom button while playing a bluray ISO, i cannot use the functionality..

[denada]

Problem with the prime 3.0 is that i cannot use the zoom function while playing a Bluray ISO, its is allowed with mkv or m2ts files, but when I hit the zoom button while playing a bluray ISO, i cannot use the functionality..

Ah, found this in the official buglist :

- B-MOVV-004 - Blu-ray playback [all] add ZOOM functionality

[Malignant]

That is why i requested an advanced menu for the dune where you can set this up by default.

Because if it overscans for 1 file it does it for all files.
If we could set the unit to underscan with a ratio of 5% standard all these problems will be tackeled at once, and you don't have to set it up each time.

[denada]

That is why i requested an advanced menu for the dune where you can set this up by default.

Because if it overscans for 1 file it does it for all files.
If we could set the unit to underscan with a ratio of 5% standard all these problems will be tackeled at once, and you don't have to set it up each time.

That would be a much better solution then having to modify the zoom ratio with 5% everytime you watch a movie..

Would be nice if that would be implemented in a future (not too far away :)) firmware update..

Thanks for your time!

[rudku]

Sorry guys, little off-topic, but I don´t want open new thread for it (concern about subtitles).

I want public one screenshot, how nice and easy can be implemented subtitles properties on mediaplayer based on Sigma chipset.
This screenshot is taken from QNAP NMP-1000.
I know many other solutions from other mediaplayers, but this is for me the best.
QNAP NMP-1000 supports loading the external subtitles during playback from whatever folder and change the font type too.
So, for me is a etalon for working with subtitles, and I´ll be happy, when HDi will implement working with subtitles similar way in next firmware updates:
- on setting page you can see "on-line" on TV all changes with size / position / color

http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac271/rudku/NMP1000_subtitles_settings.jpg

All items are requested in thread "Bugs and Wishes on Dune BD Prime 3.0":
- W-SUB-004 - Truetype fonts for subtitles - including improved possibility easy changing the Size (not only 3 steps) / Color / Type of font / Position (moving subtitles)

plus other subtitles improvements:
- B-SUB-001 - Add "Big" size subtitles (it´s not a wish, with current max. size are subtitles heavily readable).
- W-SUB-002 - Subtitles should be enabled by default (setup option needed)
Either enabled by default or a setting in the setup section is needed to allow people to select their preference concerning subtitles being enabled or disabled by default.
- W-SUB-003 - External subtitles - knowing an offer to sut. menu not only external subtitles with the same name as movie, but all subt. in movie folder
- W-SUB-005 - External subtitles - possibility read any subtitles during playback of movie - and these subtitles can store in any folder (any name of subtitles too)
- W-SUB-006 - Adjusting +/- delay of subtitles easy and directly from remote control (not from Subtitles Setup Menu)



So, we can only wish and wait...

[Mtz_]

On TViX 6500 the pgs subtitles inside M2TS can be moved up and down. Unexpected feature, but is possible and very useful.
So, is possible if the developers want it.

enjoy,
Mtz