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View Full Version : Sagas in yaDIS: Tell me how you want this feature handled


Fred-L
13-12-11, 09:14
I need your input about saga management in yaDIS.
I already discussed about this with beta testers but I would like more opinions.

So, tell me how you want this feature handled. In the program and in the Dune interface.

All opinions are welcome. Even if you don't need this feature. Do not hesitate to specify why you need this feature.

The goal of this thread is to make sure that this feature will answer the largest number of yaDIS users.

Thank you in advance ;)

flugs
13-12-11, 09:39
Salut,

In my opinion a simple, manual grouping feature (like Zappiti) would be enough. It allows handling of Sagas and additionally grouping as the end-user wants.


A+
flugs

KYThrill
13-12-11, 09:56
I'm just looking for something like Zappiti too. The ability to group any number of films under one icon, which when selected will show the cover art for grouped films. I also like manually being able to set the order in that group.

This one group will appear in all movies, genre, etc. It might be possible that not all movies appear in the group, depending on the search filter. For example, if you filter by actor, Michael Keaton, and you have a Batman group. He was only in two of those movies, so the grouping would only return those two. But under all movies, the grouping would show all Batman movies added to the group.

To scrape the group art, you can select any movie in the group and then pick from the available art.

From a Yadis interface standpoint, I think it would be great if you could right click on your list of movies and there would be an option like "Add Group". You then enter the name for the group and it appears on the movie list, like a regular directory folder in windows explorer (+,- let's you expand/shrink the list). When you select this group, you get a cover tab at the bottom where you can select your art. Then you can just click on a movie, drag it to the group folder to add, and you're done. Then maybe their could be an order tab when you select the group too. This would let you manually select the order of how the films in the group appear. Finally, if you right click the group and select remove group it sends all the films back to their spot on the regular list and removes the group. Or to remove a single film, you simply drag it back over to the root tree from the group tree.

Fred-L
13-12-11, 10:12
eureka, it is a problem for me.
I lock this thread until I have the time to clean it.

EDIT: Thread reopened.

Mr Eric
13-12-11, 11:29
I think something simple should be the best : make a kind of "movie banner wall" (like for TV series) where you will have all you sagas grouped. Each banner (that could be chosed through a new tab in each movie if this movie is said to be part of a saga) will go to a cover wall showing the titles that the user included in this saga.

"Saga" short cut could be on the main menu bar, or on the sub-menu bar under "Movies"(close to alphabetical/actors/all titles...)

yannis
13-12-11, 12:03
Here is another vote for something like the Zapitti group feature. As well as the obvious use of putting all the "Star Wars" or whatever, movies in the same group, it can also be used for colating sets without creating a seperate genre. An example which comes to mind is to create a group entitled "Concerts". Other examples might be for each family member to have a group for their own favourites" e.g. "Dad's favourites", "Mums's favourites", "Kid's favourites" etc. Of course, any movie can belong to any number of groups so that the same one could be in both "Concerts" and "Dad's Favourites".

Mr Eric
13-12-11, 12:28
Here is another vote for something like the Zapitti group feature. As well as the obvious use of putting all the "Star Wars" or whatever, movies in the same group, it can also be used for colating sets without creating a seperate genre. An example which comes to mind is to create a group entitled "Concerts". Other examples might be for each family member to have a group for their own favourites" e.g. "Dad's favourites", "Mums's favourites", "Kid's favourites" etc. Of course, any movie can belong to any number of groups so that the same one could be in both "Concerts" and "Dad's Favourites".

This is clearly not what most people will call Saga IMO, and should be kept as a genre management...But depending on fred's final decision and saga process, may be you will be able to create such fake Saga (but I don't see the interest compared to personal genre list with shorcuts in the main menu bar)

calahan
13-12-11, 13:03
Salut,

In my opinion a simple, manual grouping feature (like Zappiti) would be enough. It allows handling of Sagas and additionally grouping as the end-user wants.


A+
flugs

I absolutely agree with flugs.
I hope it comes with Release 2.1.8

skank
13-12-11, 13:04
Here is another vote for something like the Zapitti group feature. As well as the obvious use of putting all the "Star Wars" or whatever, movies in the same group, it can also be used for colating sets without creating a seperate genre. An example which comes to mind is to create a group entitled "Concerts". Other examples might be for each family member to have a group for their own favourites" e.g. "Dad's favourites", "Mums's favourites", "Kid's favourites" etc. Of course, any movie can belong to any number of groups so that the same one could be in both "Concerts" and "Dad's Favourites".

thas not a saga...
By saga we mean for ex "Lord of the rings" and starwars etc etc..

I would like to see on the dune one cover for all movies
Then when you browse on it.. the number of disc would appear (=number of movies the saga has)
Then you should be able to browse it... and chose the movie from the saga you want.
Then when you click you get the same movie sheet like you have now when you click a movie cover

Using banners like with series is definately NOT the way to go.
Keep movies with movies (without banners) and series with series
Sagas are movies not series ;)

Mr Eric
13-12-11, 13:32
saga banners would only be used as landing page to the saga list, I think it will looks better than a "general" cover and will be also better to create something unique for each saga. of course, once you selected the saga (like you're selecting a TV serie on the Tv banners) you will then land to a cover wall with all the covers for the movies included in your saga.

of course, this is only details, and I'm +1 with everything else you said ;)

skank
13-12-11, 13:36
saga banners would only be used as landing page to the saga list, I think it will looks better than a "general" cover and will be also better to create something unique for each saga. of course, once you selected the saga (like you're selecting a TV serie on the Tv banners) you will then land to a cover wall with all the covers for the movies included in your saga.

of course, this is only details, and I'm +1 with everything else you said ;)

No, dont like that idea :(
I think the sagas should be with the other movies too on the same page :(
So no banners
But you should be able to do a search on sagas only too like with genres..

skank
13-12-11, 13:37
The people saying they'd like to have like in zappiti, can you post us a screenshot of how it looks like?

flugs
13-12-11, 13:43
Salut,

The grouping feature of Zappiti works like this. Groups are displayed inside the normal icon view of movies. If you "enter" into the group, you will see an icon-wall with the movies inside the group. Selecting a movie there will show the synopsis page.
What is nice with the grouping is that you can do whatever you want (even, if it is not Saga in the meaning of Movie Sagas as Star wars, etc).
You can group whatever movie you want and a movie can be in different groups.
Sure, you could do something similar with custom genres, but there is one major problem with this. Reloading the movie information are deleting custom Genres (and therefore the manual grouping).
You also would need to edit the genres on all movies you want to group.
With a specific grouping feature, you could select all movies and press a "Add to Group" button.
It would also be nice to be able to sort Movies in groups and this is not possible with custom genres.

A+
flugs

skank
13-12-11, 13:49
Salut,

The grouping feature of Zappiti works like this. Groups are displayed inside the normal icon view of movies. If you "enter" into the group, you will see an icon-wall with the movies inside the group. Selecting a movie there will show the synopsis page.What is nice with the grouping is that you can do whatever you want (even, if it is not Saga in the meaning of Movie Sagas as Star wars, etc).
You can group whatever movie you want and a movie can be in different groups.
Sure, you could do something similar with custom genres, but there is one major problem with this. Reloading the movie information are deleting custom Genres (and therefore the manual grouping).
You also would need to edit the genres on all movies you want to group.
With a specific grouping feature, you could select all movies and press a "Add to Group" button.
It would also be nice to be able to sort Movies in groups and this is not possible with custom genres.

A+
flugs

Can you take a picture of that?

skank
13-12-11, 13:49
Fred-L what were the possibilities you had so far?

skank
13-12-11, 13:51
what i told with the discs, see here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1sy4rab5Ik&feature=related

flugs
13-12-11, 14:01
Can you take a picture of that?

Salut,

I'm not using Zappiti anymore (switched completely to yaDIS 8)).
Groups are like normal movies inside the icon-view with a cover and a small "G" (to identify that it is a group).

Possibly somebody else could provide screen-shots.

A+
flugs

kiskis
13-12-11, 14:45
Dune Flash interface.. collection preview starting at 1.18..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rx8sZb053k&feature=related

Mostly all is said in first page in this thread.

User can start to create saga (collection) manually and add into there as many movies as he wants.

There is question, how to distinguish that when you browsing between covers, how to show to user, that under this cover lies movie collection.

Some visual way to show it.

ammenRA
13-12-11, 16:22
i prefer the current layout, all related movies (saga movies) are on the same page with others movies, no grouping whatsoever. besides it's kind of hard to search the right fan art and poster for sagas movies if you use grouping or under a banner like tv series.

i don't know if harry potter series could be call saga but if yaDIS can scrap and organize it correctly (chronological) on the same page with others movies then all is well.

Wurst
13-12-11, 16:55
I prefer a normal grouping in the moviewall.

One Cover for the Saga and when you click on it a new moviewall apears with all movies from the saga itself as single covers.

zekeblue
13-12-11, 16:56
I've not seen the Zappitti way of handling grouping, but I really like where this is going. My suggestion is to accommodate both sagas and generic grouping in the same feature. Allow multiple groups. Allow movies to belong to more than one group. Let user name each group as desired. This would be the most flexible.

Aside: I also like having a line at the bottom of the wall that shows the name of the currently selected film as some names are not so visible on the covers (as shown in the flash and YAMJ videos).

KYThrill
13-12-11, 17:24
One of the reasons I like the Zappiti method is that it isn't just Sagas, but general purpose grouping. For example, I do have a Batman group. That group contains all my Batman films, both the late 80's films and the modern trilogy. And if I wanted, I could put a group within a group to split the 80's and 00's "sagas" if I desired.

But I also use it to group all IMAX videos, all exercise videos, etc. These aren't really sagas, but they are videos that feature some loose association to each other. This allows Zappiti to keep the movie wall looking clean. My wife has 28 exercise videos. So grouping allows me to have one cover art on my main movie wall for exercise videos. Click it and you get a sub-movie wall that is just the exercise videos. So Zappiti grouping is tremendous at reducing movie wall clutter.

It is also great for flexibility on difficult sagas. For example, there are Aliens movies. There are Predators movies. Then there are Aliens vs Predators movies. Some people argue that is three separate sagas. Other people say it is really one large saga. A basic grouping function allows both sides of the argument to group in their preferred manner.

You can also use a basic grouping function to group movies with their special features. For example, you can create a Star Wars: A New Hope group. In that group you might have the main feature, and three 60 minute documentaries on the film ripped from the Blu-ray special features disc. Then you can group the individual film groups into a general Star Wars "saga" group.

And to chime in with others, I'm opposed to using banners for sagas. Leave banners for TV shows.

flugs
13-12-11, 17:37
Salut KYThrill,

Great description of the different requirements/possibilities.

General manual grouping allows everybody to organize things as they desire.
The ones, which do not want to use Groups/Sagas at all (nothing changes), the ones which only want to use Sagas and the ones which want to use Saga and/or grouping.

I'm also opposed to use banners. Groups should be integrated into the standard movie-icon-wall.

a) Group covers could easily be found (or made from covers), whereas group-icons in Banner format not.
b) We also would lose the advantage to "clear" the standard icon wall for movies using groups (as movies, which are inside a group will only be visible inside the group).


A+
flugs

skank
13-12-11, 17:41
I prefer a normal grouping in the moviewall.

One Cover for the Saga and when you click on it a new moviewall apears with all movies from the saga itself as single covers.

Agree. With some flash to make it more alive

Sent from my GT-S5660 using Tapatalk

Frasier
13-12-11, 17:44
One Cover for the Saga and when you click on it a new moviewall apears with all movies from the saga itself as single covers.
100 % agree

doc1368
13-12-11, 19:16
I agree with KYThrill and flugs. Good descriptions given. When moving from zappati to yaDIS, this was the feature I missed the most. Very easy to use, very easy to find sagas within the main icon group, very logical and easy to use. Would love to be able to group my LOTR EE movies!

Simply
1. select group name and icon
2. choose which movies to put in your group (browse function rather than drop and drag is easiest I think)
3. done

I also say nix to use of banners. You'd have to move your movie groups into the TV Series group which need to be on the same hard drive. Way too restrictive and a lot of work just to have a banner as the icon for the group.

Also nix to Flash. That's another bag of worms being unable to play iso or BDMV folders and I doubt you've be able to combine yaDIS with flash type of program.

Mr Eric
13-12-11, 19:37
I don't see why you should move your movies to your series folder to use banners, never said that :!: but anyway, it seems that I'm a minority with the idea that creating sagas should be used to have short access to a defined set of movies. If you put it inside the all titles wall, I don't see the point...:confused:

Don't call it saga then, just call it "virtual boxset" and do it the way mymovies (and zappiti apparently) is doing it. I will post some screenshots from mm to show how it's handled and be sure we all talk about the same thing. :wink:

skank
13-12-11, 19:37
Also nix to Flash. That's another bag of worms being unable to play iso or BDMV folders and I doubt you've be able to combine yaDIS with flash type of program.

You know there is already some sort of flash in yadis?
When you move the cursor from one to another cover, it is flash you know..

Mr Eric
13-12-11, 19:40
I don't think this is done by yadis but done by the dune skin itself. And like doc, as long as using flash will mean no Iso or bdvm, I don't want it.

doc1368
13-12-11, 19:47
You know there is already some sort of flash in yadis?
When you move the cursor from one to another cover, it is flash you know..

It's not flash. It's a function of Dune. Fred-L had to update yaDIS to v2.1.7 because the new firmware didn't automatically do that anymore and a tag had to be added to dune_folder.txt to allow that.

skank
13-12-11, 20:13
I don't think this is done by yadis but done by the dune skin itself. And like doc, as long as using flash will mean no Iso or bdvm, I don't want it.

I agree

Sent from my GT-S5660 using Tapatalk

KYThrill
13-12-11, 22:21
You know there is already some sort of flash in yadis?
When you move the cursor from one to another cover, it is flash you know..

That isn't flash. That is the linux OS that the Dunes run. It's a simple scaling program/graphic replacement technique. Icon gets bigger or smaller because of a "mouse over" type scaling factor. You get an outline because their is on outline graphic (transparent aai) and the dune combines your box art graphic with that graphic to form a third composite graphic. Again when you "mouse over" the dune switches from one graphic to the other.

dvbuljan
13-12-11, 23:00
You'll notice that everyone on this forum states that one of the best things about Zappiti is grouping. Organize it like in Zappiti and you have one hell of a scraper/indexer.

jfarr
14-12-11, 01:06
You'll notice that everyone on this forum states that one of the best things about Zappiti is grouping. Organize it like in Zappiti and you have one hell of a scraper/indexer.

One of the things I didn't like in the Zappiti approach, was if/when you had different genres for different movies in the group. Zappiti basically would show the group in those Genres and collections where the first movie in the group belonged, and ignore those of the other movies in the group (I think). As I use the Genre facility to mark the kids' unwatched movies, and then other genres to mark those I haven't watched, when you get the latest movie in the set, it doesn't appear where you want it to.

jsc1205
14-12-11, 04:29
I would like to see the ability for box sets and "sagas".

If you have something like the Alien Anthology or Star Wars box set that contains multiple movies, have it listed on the main screen as the box set. Then when it is selected, give the user the ability to show poster/selection for each movie within that box set. Then drill down to movie info for each movie within that box set or "saga".

I would also like to see the ability for this to be used for multiple disc movies. In other words when the movie is on disc 1 and the bonus features on disc 2. MyMovies will show a disc icon for each disc indicating disc 1 or disc 2. Whichever you want to play you select it and play it.

mv038856
14-12-11, 09:35
One of the reasons I like the Zappiti method is that it isn't just Sagas, but general purpose grouping. For example, I do have a Batman group. That group contains all my Batman films, both the late 80's films and the modern trilogy. And if I wanted, I could put a group within a group to split the 80's and 00's "sagas" if I desired.

But I also use it to group all IMAX videos, all exercise videos, etc. These aren't really sagas, but they are videos that feature some loose association to each other. This allows Zappiti to keep the movie wall looking clean. My wife has 28 exercise videos. So grouping allows me to have one cover art on my main movie wall for exercise videos. Click it and you get a sub-movie wall that is just the exercise videos. So Zappiti grouping is tremendous at reducing movie wall clutter.

It is also great for flexibility on difficult sagas. For example, there are Aliens movies. There are Predators movies. Then there are Aliens vs Predators movies. Some people argue that is three separate sagas. Other people say it is really one large saga. A basic grouping function allows both sides of the argument to group in their preferred manner.

You can also use a basic grouping function to group movies with their special features. For example, you can create a Star Wars: A New Hope group. In that group you might have the main feature, and three 60 minute documentaries on the film ripped from the Blu-ray special features disc. Then you can group the individual film groups into a general Star Wars "saga" group.

And to chime in with others, I'm opposed to using banners for sagas. Leave banners for TV shows.

+1

A question I was asking myself is how the single titles that have been added to a group are handled individually, i.e. will there be a view, where you can find them. this might not be a problem for a Harry Potter series, because you will look for it under "H" and find it. But how about the workout video that has been added to the "Workout" group but is titled "fitness bla bla" you won't find it under "F". So, would adding a movie to a group eliminate it from the first level of indexes ( which clearly is THE benefit of the idea;keep indexes clean) or would there bee selected views where you can see the individual movies? Another detail question is how to handle genres. Would the Genre of the group count ( therfore eliminating idividual genres) or would the group not be in effect for the genre view? Could there be a mixture, i.e. titles are shown as group if they allshare the same genre or individually if they don't?

Those question aren't easy to answer, I think. But I certainly would appreciate a simple grouping feature as outlined above.

Cheers

Markus

Mr Eric
14-12-11, 10:25
Ok, so here's how MM is doing it :

1. set up a virtual box set is a very easy 3 steps action :
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/7821/virtualboxset.jpg

Once done here's what you will have on the dune :
1. chose your acces from the main menu :
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3445/mmmainmenu.jpg

2. cover wall landing page :
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7426/mmalltitles.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/mmalltitles.jpg/)

3. inside the virtual boxset :
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1435/mminsideboxset.jpg

The trick : once grouped in a boxset, the individual titles are simply not anymore displayed anywhere (genres, year, ...). The Master boxset will become the only title you can see everywhere, with it's own genre/actors...This is the main problem with this solution, and it's almost impossible to have boxset + individual titles spread over the sub-categories (genre,...), this is just a coding nightmare I believe (Fred will confirm I think).

So this solution might be Ok for some saga like my Xmen or other sagas where genres/actors/directors are the same accross each iteration. But what about James Bond ? Are you going to put all james bond actors name ? all directors ? And the year ?

That's why in my view (and unless Fred finds the easy solution to have both boxset and individual titles displayed at once), I'm in favor of a new "Saga/boxset" menu that will group the sagas/boxsets outside of the usual movies walls and that shoudl only be a rearrangement of the individual titles and not an hard coded boxset with the problems above.

yannis
14-12-11, 10:41
thas not a saga...
By saga we mean for ex "Lord of the rings" and starwars etc etc..
snip...........

Re read my post. The very first sentence refers exactly to this.

The rest of my post pointed out the potential for additional uses as well.

flugs
14-12-11, 10:59
Salut Mr Eric,

I would be quite happy to have the Saga/Box sets (groups) only in the "All movies" and Alphabetical Index (of course in these views the individual covers of movies inside a group should not be displayed anymore).

If it should be extended to the other indexes (what I think is not required), I think the values of group for the index should be the merge of the values of all movies inside the group (Movie 1 has genre A, Movie 2 has genre A and B, so the group should be visible in Genre A and B).

I do not like the idea of having the groups (only) visible in a specific menu of yaDIS. This would mean I know before that I want to watch a Saga. Very often I'm just scrolling the movie wall to find a movie I want to see.

Maybe it is possible to implement both (having an additional index Groups, which only shows the groups).

A+
flugs

PS: Thanks for your work inside the Beta Team. I think the Beta team is part of the reason why yaDIS is as stable as it is today.

Mr Eric
14-12-11, 11:23
that's my idea in fact (but still, fred is the only one beign able to code it, so it's up to him to tell which solution is the best possibility) : having a new menu with saga/boxset only, but keep the individual titles in all the submenus. I'm like you somtimes I don't know what to watch and I check the "all titles". With my idea, all individual titles should be still in there (but not the boxset), as well as in the other submenus like genres/years...

But this will also mean that boxset/saga/supergroup (name it as you like; and wheter you will acces through a banner or a cover isn't important) will be only accessible through the new menu.

Fred, what do you think is possible ?

flugs
14-12-11, 11:57
that's my idea in fact (but still, fred is the only one beign able to code it, so it's up to him to tell which solution is the best possibility) : having a new menu with saga/boxset only, but keep the individual titles in all the submenus. I'm like you somtimes I don't know what to watch and I check the "all titles". With my idea, all individual titles should be still in there (but not the boxset), as well as in the other submenus like genres/years...

But this will also mean that boxset/saga/supergroup (name it as you like; and wheter you will acces through a banner or a cover isn't important) will be only accessible through the new menu.

Fred, what do you think is possible ?

Salut,

Just to make it clear from my side:

a) Groups are visible in "All movies" and Alphabetical Index. In these indexes the individual movies which are in groups are not visible anymore (you have to enter the group to see them).

b) In other indexes (Genres, Actors, etc) only individual movies are visible (no Groups)

c) A new Index "Groups" should be added to display all groups (as covers, not banners)


+1 for the feedback request from Fred-L.
I think it would be helpful to get a feedback from Fred-L about the current discussion to see his opinion (it is not worth to discuss any longer about options, which are excluded from his point of view).


A+
flugs

Mr Eric
14-12-11, 12:46
I think that the (coding) problem in your point b)...

flugs
14-12-11, 12:53
Salut,

I would imagine that a) will be the more difficult part (coding: Display groups, hide individual movies inside the groups and the additional level of nesting with the "Group-movie-wall)).
b) would only mean that you ignore all groups when creating these indexes.

Anyway in the end only Fred-L could answer this as he knows how it is implented today.

A+
flugs

skank
14-12-11, 13:15
Salut,

Just to make it clear from my side:

a) Groups are visible in "All movies" and Alphabetical Index. In these indexes the individual movies which are in groups are not visible anymore (you have to enter the group to see them).

b) In other indexes (Genres, Actors, etc) only individual movies are visible (no Groups)

c) A new Index "Groups" should be added to display all groups (as covers, not banners)


+1 for the feedback request from Fred-L.
I think it would be helpful to get a feedback from Fred-L about the current discussion to see his opinion (it is not worth to discuss any longer about options, which are excluded from his point of view).


A+
flugs

+1 :)
What's your opinion so far, Fred-L?

skank
14-12-11, 13:16
May i speak in general when i say most of us don't want banners but covers instead? :)

So that's already one conclusion :)

zekeblue
14-12-11, 16:23
Salut,

Just to make it clear from my side:

a) Groups are visible in "All movies" and Alphabetical Index. In these indexes the individual movies which are in groups are not visible anymore (you have to enter the group to see them).

b) In other indexes (Genres, Actors, etc) only individual movies are visible (no Groups)

c) A new Index "Groups" should be added to display all groups (as covers, not banners)


+1 for the feedback request from Fred-L.
I think it would be helpful to get a feedback from Fred-L about the current discussion to see his opinion (it is not worth to discuss any longer about options, which are excluded from his point of view).


A+
flugs

Yes, Yes! This is perfect, if possible. I think it would work both for those just wanting to use this feature for sagas and for those that would use it for sagas and or other groupings (such as concerts, fitness, etc). I would like to include concerts in my database but don't want them cluttering the movie wall or alphabet search. It is fine for genres, actors, directors as I can manage those as I please with field entries for each movie.

Perhaps another user defined field? I would label it "musician" (since I'm most interested in a concerts group). Then musician would be another search view. Someone else could label it 'instructor' if they have fitness or podcast type videos. This would provide access to this group of interest more on its own without confusing the main wall and alpa views (which I prefer to keep for theatrical movies only.

Another possibility would be to provide settings for "include titles from groups on wall" and "include titles from groups in alpha view".

Fred-L
15-12-11, 08:56
Thank you all for your thoughts on this topic.
I'll get back to you soon ;)

skank
15-12-11, 09:59
Thank you all for your thoughts on this topic.
I'll get back to you soon ;)

sweet ! :)

Fred-L
16-12-11, 08:40
For me, sagas and generic groups are not the same thing and should not be handled the same way. This is not the same purpose.

I don't see the point to integrate generic groups inside movie walls.

It does not make sense to integrate sagas or generic groups in index categories like Actors, Genres, Years, etc...

A movie can only be a member of one saga.

A movie can be a member of several generic groups.


Saying that, I can propose you the following:

1. Manage sagas and generic groups in 2 different ways.
2. Sagas will be visible only in All movies, Selection and Recently added sections.
3. A new category called "Sagas" will be added in the movie submenu to allow displaying all sagas in one screen.
4. A newly created saga will use the poster and fanart of the first added movie in that saga.
5. Enhance the current "Selection" feature allowing people to create several selections of movies. These selections will be in fact generic groups.
6. These selections of movies will be displayed in the movie submenu like the unique selection today.

I thing the above offers a true "Sagas" feature that keep things logical. The ability to manage several selections of movie answer the need for more flexibility.

Any comments ?

skank
16-12-11, 09:52
For me, sagas and generic groups are not the same thing and should not be handled the same way. This is not the same purpose.

I don't see the point to integrate generic groups inside movie walls.

It does not make sense to integrate sagas or generic groups in index categories like Actors, Genres, Years, etc...

A movie can only be a member of one saga.

A movie can be a member of several generic groups.


Saying that, I can propose you the following:

1. Manage sagas and generic groups in 2 different ways.
2. Sagas will be visible only in All movies, Selection and Recently added sections.
3. A new category called "Sagas" will be added in the movie submenu to allow displaying all sagas in one screen.
4. A newly created saga will use the poster and fanart of the first added movie in that saga.
5. Enhance the current "Selection" feature allowing people to create several selections of movies. These selections will be in fact generic groups.
6. These selections of movies will be displayed in the movie submenu like the unique selection today.

I thing the above offers a true "Sagas" feature that keep things logical. The ability to manage several selections of movie answer the need for more flexibility.

Any comments ?


Great and very clear!

One thing about point 4 though..
Will we be able to use a cover for triologies, you say it automatically takes the cover from the first added movie.. but we will be able to use "the saga cover if available" right?
Cause some sagas have already their own cover ;)

Twincharger
16-12-11, 09:54
4. A newly created saga will use the poster and fanart of the first added movie in that saga.

Will we be able to change the poster and fanart for the saga? Because I don't think that this is the optimal solution, I'm sure most would like to use a more generic poster (at least) for the saga.

Thanks!

skank
16-12-11, 09:57
Will we be able to change the poster and fanart for the saga? Because I don't think that this is the optimal solution, I'm sure most would like to use a more generic poster (at least) for the saga.

Thanks!

lol same question as me :)

Fred-L
16-12-11, 10:05
Not with the first integration of this feature.

I can't do everything right now. For sure there will be enhancements in the future.
I want to propose this feature as soon as possible. This is not compatible with the integration of everything asked by the users.

Be aware that I personnally don't care about sagas ;) Do you see what I mean ?

Can you explain to me where you can find specific covers for sagas ?

Twincharger
16-12-11, 10:20
Can you explain to me where you can find specific covers for sagas ?
No specific place, Google search and/or some personal editing. For instance, having the cover of LOTR SEE The Fellowship Of The Ring (with that text on it) is not quite intuitive for a saga cover. So why no let us choose at least custom poster and fanart (with the TMDB default for first movie of saga) via right-click - Add Custom?

calahan
16-12-11, 11:25
No specific place, Google search and/or some personal editing. For instance, having the cover of LOTR SEE The Fellowship Of The Ring (with that text on it) is not quite intuitive for a saga cover. So why no let us choose at least custom poster and fanart (with the TMDB default for first movie of saga) via right-click - Add Custom?

Hi Fred-L, i think its better you release your own idea,and start this Discussion
after Release 2.1.8,otherwise it will be a endless Topic;)

Greets and Thanks

flugs
16-12-11, 11:30
Not with the first integration of this feature.

I can't do everything right now. For sure there will be enhancements in the future.
I want to propose this feature as soon as possible. This is not compatible with the integration of everything asked by the users.

Be aware that I personnally don't care about sagas ;) Do you see what I mean ?

Can you explain to me where you can find specific covers for sagas ?

Salut,

Thanks again Fred-L for working on a subject you are even not require personally.
I'm very keen to see the first version including this.

I do not think it is required to have covers and fanarts of Sagas/Groups automatically, as long as you give the possibility to define a cover (as for customart of movies) manually.
Even if a custom background for Sagas/Groups would be a nice feature, I could live without it.
Saga/Group covers can be found in the net.


I see the following possibilities to define a default Saga/Group cover:

a) Use a generic group cover (defined in the template :)).

b) Assign the cover of the first movie added to the group

c) Automatically create a cover using some covers (example first three) of the items in the group (overlaying the covers and shifting each cover by xx pixels)

A+
flugs

fir3b4ll
16-12-11, 11:37
Not with the first integration of this feature.

Can you explain to me where you can find specific covers for sagas ?




hi fred-l

i find a wikipadia entry with a lot of sagas and covers

-->>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_film_series_with_three_entries

skank
16-12-11, 12:23
No specific place, Google search and/or some personal editing. For instance, having the cover of LOTR SEE The Fellowship Of The Ring (with that text on it) is not quite intuitive for a saga cover. So why no let us choose at least custom poster and fanart (with the TMDB default for first movie of saga) via right-click - Add Custom?

Again 100% agree

skank
16-12-11, 12:43
No specific place, Google search and/or some personal editing. For instance, having the cover of LOTR SEE The Fellowship Of The Ring (with that text on it) is not quite intuitive for a saga cover. So why no let us choose at least custom poster and fanart (with the TMDB default for first movie of saga) via right-click - Add Custom?


Fred-L, this is already possible with the normal movies...
Isnt that the same for sagas then? Or you have to reprogram this for sagas too?

Now with movies, you can chose the poster and fanart or manually add one...
So how come this will be different for sagas?

Mr Eric
16-12-11, 12:48
because saga will certainly be another layer that Fred needs to create from scratch. So having this option for a movie, won't be automatically (and easily) reproduced for sagas.

ammenRA
16-12-11, 14:25
Fred, is there any option for fans who doesn't like saga movies being group under one cover, to not to use saga feature?

i love movie posters, i even collect them. so the idea to "hide" posters under one poster is a no no no to me.

Fred-L
16-12-11, 15:01
Saga feature will be totally optional ;)

skank
16-12-11, 15:33
So feature is set now?
:D

zekeblue
16-12-11, 15:59
For me, sagas and generic groups are not the same thing and should not be handled the same way. This is not the same purpose.

I don't see the point to integrate generic groups inside movie walls.

It does not make sense to integrate sagas or generic groups in index categories like Actors, Genres, Years, etc...

A movie can only be a member of one saga.

A movie can be a member of several generic groups.


Saying that, I can propose you the following:
<snip>

5. Enhance the current "Selection" feature allowing people to create several selections of movies. These selections will be in fact generic groups.
6. These selections of movies will be displayed in the movie submenu like the unique selection today.

I thing the above offers a true "Sagas" feature that keep things logical. The ability to manage several selections of movie answer the need for more flexibility.

Any comments ?

I'm not sure I see the advantage of additional selections over using genres other than being able to work with them separately in the yaDIS program. And wouldn't using "selection" have that group of movies integrated with all movies, alphabet, etc?

So, if I want to include Concerts in my yaDIS database, but keep them separate from movies, this doesn't help, unless I'm missing something (not unlikely!), whereas a grouping of concerts would make them available on the wall under once or more covers (Jazz, Rock, etc.), but not clutter all of the other views.

flugs
16-12-11, 16:55
For me, sagas and generic groups are not the same thing and should not be handled the same way. This is not the same purpose.

I don't see the point to integrate generic groups inside movie walls.

It does not make sense to integrate sagas or generic groups in index categories like Actors, Genres, Years, etc...

A movie can only be a member of one saga.

A movie can be a member of several generic groups.


Saying that, I can propose you the following:

1. Manage sagas and generic groups in 2 different ways.
2. Sagas will be visible only in All movies, Selection and Recently added sections.
3. A new category called "Sagas" will be added in the movie submenu to allow displaying all sagas in one screen.
4. A newly created saga will use the poster and fanart of the first added movie in that saga.
5. Enhance the current "Selection" feature allowing people to create several selections of movies. These selections will be in fact generic groups.
6. These selections of movies will be displayed in the movie submenu like the unique selection today.

I thing the above offers a true "Sagas" feature that keep things logical. The ability to manage several selections of movie answer the need for more flexibility.

Any comments ?

Salut,

I think the major reason why I (and I think I'm not alone) are asking much more for a grouping feature than a specific Saga management (1 movie can only belong to one Saga with a specific Saga index) is that a generic grouping allows you to reduce the number of items in the "All movies" and "Alphabetical" indexes. If you have a huge collections, it is quite annoying to scroll through all movies, so working with groups could be a solution (like you are working with folders in a file-system).
I'm convinced it would make content management inside yaDIS much more flexible than today and as it is up to the user to use it, it will not change anything to the user, which do not like to group their movies.

I agree there is no sense to have groups in other indexes (like actors, etc).

A+
flugs

Fred-L
16-12-11, 17:12
I'm not sure I see the advantage of additional selections over using genres other than being able to work with them separately in the yaDIS program. And wouldn't using "selection" have that group of movies integrated with all movies, alphabet, etc?

So, if I want to include Concerts in my yaDIS database, but keep them separate from movies, this doesn't help, unless I'm missing something (not unlikely!), whereas a grouping of concerts would make them available on the wall under once or more covers (Jazz, Rock, etc.), but not clutter all of the other views.
The purpose of yaDIS is not to manage other things than movies and tv shows.

For people who wanted to manage concerts, documentaries, shorts, etc... I added the possibility to add genre shortcuts to the main menu. It works well to access this kind of video from the main menu. Yes, it is not optimal. It was never intended to hide these videos from other movie screens. Also remember that a genre is displayed on the synopsis screen.

The selections (or groups) have a different purpose than genres. For instance, you can create a group named "Dad's not seen movies" or "Mum's favorites". Clearly, these groups can not be considered as genres. Using groups will not display "Dad's not seen movies" on the synopsis screens.

flugs
16-12-11, 17:23
Salut,

Even for movies you could have a requirement of groups.

There has already been somebody mentioning Alien Saga, Predator Saga and Alien vs Predator Saga.
I could imaging to have a group for Alien and Predator Movies containing each the Alien Vs Predator Movies (so Alien Vs Predator are indexed in both).

Another Group could be "Jack Ryan", grouping all movies with this Tom Clancy character (which is not a Saga).

A+
flugs

KYThrill
16-12-11, 17:26
For me, sagas and generic groups are not the same thing and should not be handled the same way. This is not the same purpose.

I don't see the point to integrate generic groups inside movie walls.

It does not make sense to integrate sagas or generic groups in index categories like Actors, Genres, Years, etc...

A movie can only be a member of one saga.

A movie can be a member of several generic groups.


Saying that, I can propose you the following:

1. Manage sagas and generic groups in 2 different ways.
2. Sagas will be visible only in All movies, Selection and Recently added sections.
3. A new category called "Sagas" will be added in the movie submenu to allow displaying all sagas in one screen.
4. A newly created saga will use the poster and fanart of the first added movie in that saga.
5. Enhance the current "Selection" feature allowing people to create several selections of movies. These selections will be in fact generic groups.
6. These selections of movies will be displayed in the movie submenu like the unique selection today.

I thing the above offers a true "Sagas" feature that keep things logical. The ability to manage several selections of movie answer the need for more flexibility.

Any comments ?

So you totally ignored what the majority asked for? Or am I misreading something. I think Mr. Eric is the only person who asked for it to be handled this way. IN reading this thread, what I saw is that overwhelmingly people want an option for groups in the movie wall (which can double as a way to manage sagas).

Oh well. I guess that means Zappiti will remain my primary scraper and Yadis will just be a toy to play with on the side.

KYThrill
16-12-11, 17:30
The purpose of yaDIS is not to manage other things than movies and tv shows.

For people who wanted to manage concerts, documentaries, shorts, etc... I added the possibility to add genre shortcuts to the main menu. It works well to access this kind of video from the main menu. Yes, it is not optimal. It was never intended to hide these videos from other movie screens. Also remember that a genre is displayed on the synopsis screen.

The selections (or groups) have a different purpose than genres. For instance, you can create a group named "Dad's not seen movies" or "Mum's favorites". Clearly, these groups can not be considered as genres. Using groups will not display "Dad's not seen movies" on the synopsis screens.

According to the AFI, a documentary is a movie. There are also Oscars and Academy Awards categories for documentaries. So if the purpose of yaDIS is to manage movies and TV shows, it should be able to handle documentaries, including series of documentaries (I guess a Saga of documentaries). Documentary is an officially recognized genre of film making.

skank
16-12-11, 17:34
So you totally ignored what the majority asked for? I think Mr. Eric is the only person who asked for it to be handled this way.

Oh well. I guess that means Zappiti will remain my primary scraper and Yadis will just be a toy to play with on the side.

Why is that?
I think Fred-L did a good job in listening to the majority...

Fred-L
16-12-11, 17:37
So you totally ignored what the majority asked for? I think Mr. Eric is the only person who asked for it to be handled this way.

Oh well. I guess that means Zappiti will remain my primary scraper and Yadis will just be a toy to play with on the side.

Can you precise what I ignored ?

Fred-L
16-12-11, 17:39
According to the AFI, a documentary is a movie. There are also Oscars and Academy Awards categories for documentaries. So if the purpose of yaDIS is to manage movies and TV shows, it should be able to handle documentaries, including series of documentaries (I guess a Saga of documentaries).

You're right for documentaries. They are movies. I wanted to talk about other things than movies and I shouldn't have mentioned documentaries.

Fred-L
16-12-11, 17:50
Oh well. I guess that means Zappiti will remain my primary scraper and Yadis will just be a toy to play with on the side.
You know what ? I don't care :p

It is clear for me that the way groups are managed in Zappiti does not suit my needs. It is just useless and not logical. yaDIS will be more flexible by managing differently sagas and groups. I don't see the point to display groups in a movie wall if this group is not a saga. Or I miss something...

I wish you good luck with Zappiti when I see the problems users have at each release :lol:

flugs
16-12-11, 17:54
Why is that?
I think Fred-L did a good job in listening to the majority...

Salut,

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have had the impression most of the participants of this thread were looking for a Zappiti like Grouping feature (but possibly I have had the impression, because I'm part of these ones).

Anyway, it is Fred's decision what he wants to implement and I do not think we should blame him for whatever decision he will take or has taken.

We also do not know, if such a grouping feature will require massive changes in the data handling inside yaDIS (alias huge development effort and high risk of bugs) and it is for this reason Fred do not want to go this way (for the moment ;)).

I would not have any use of a Saga feature as a specific index, but this is my personal perception of this functionality (as others would not see any use of generic groups).

It does not change anything on my opinion about yaDIS and I still think it is the most complete and most active developed (together with DFI) indexer available.

A+
flugs

skank
16-12-11, 17:59
You know what ? I don't care :p

It is clear for me that the way groups are managed in Zappiti does not suit my needs. It is just useless and not logical. yaDIS will be more flexible by managing differently sagas and groups. I don't see the point to display groups in a movie wall if this group is not a saga. Or I miss something...

I wish you good luck with Zappiti when I see the problems users have at each release :lol:

i totally agree Fred-L

flugs
16-12-11, 18:09
You know what ? I don't care :p
It is clear for me that the way groups are managed in Zappiti does not suit my needs. It is just useless and not logical. yaDIS will be more flexible by managing differently sagas and groups. I don't see the point to display groups in a movie wall if this group is not a saga. Or I miss something...

I wish you good luck with Zappiti when I see the problems users have at each release :lol:

Salut,

I tried to explain in a previous post where generic groups could be useful.

Could you precise, why groups in Zappiti are not logic?
I'm just comparing this with virtual links of a file system and this seems to be something logic and useful (you are even using something like this for the Dune interface ;)).

I understand that you do not have a need for it, so we will just go with whatever you will implement (even if in my opinion the "a movie could only belong to one single Saga" rule is a limitation like the single Selection (a great feature) today).

I only hope that you will display the Sagas in the movie wall excluding contained movies (All and Alphabetical index) and not only in a specific Saga index.

Lets wait and see.

A+
flugs

skank
16-12-11, 18:13
I only hope that you will display the Sagas in the movie wall excluding contained movies (All and Alphabetical index) and not only in a specific Saga index.

Lets wait and see.

A+
flugs


Fred-L said that the sagas will be shown in "All movies" and a specific Saga index, so that part will be ok ;)

I quote:
2. Sagas will be visible only in All movies, Selection and Recently added sections.
3. A new category called "Sagas" will be added in the movie submenu to allow displaying all sagas in one screen.

KYThrill
16-12-11, 18:19
I agree that it is Fred's program and he can do what he wants with it. It isn't a product that people are paying for (which I would if it was a product I wanted). However, where I feel that he went wrong is soliciting feedback from folks under the guise that he was to implement the feature to suit the needs of the largest number of Yadis users, and then ignore them.

"The goal of this thread is to make sure that this feature will answer the largest number of yaDIS users."

By my count 13 users asked for a movie wall/sub-movie wall setup in the index (8 of the 13 specifically referenced Zappiti, with 5 just general movie wall/sub-movie wall). 1 user wanted it to be a separate menu item, and 1 user did not want any kind of grouping/saga to be added. So 8 out of 15 respondents (over 50%), want the feature to be Zappiti like.

People spent time making those posts, thinking about ways to do it, and that was just time wasted really if there was never going to be an honest attempt to cater to the users.

KYThrill
16-12-11, 18:21
You know what ? I don't care :p
It is just useless and not logical.

For the majority it is useful and logical. For you it may not be, but for the majority...

flugs
16-12-11, 18:29
Fred-L said that the sagas will be shown in "All movies" and a specific Saga index, so that part will be ok ;)

I quote:
2. Sagas will be visible only in All movies, Selection and Recently added sections.
3. A new category called "Sagas" will be added in the movie submenu to allow displaying all sagas in one screen.

Salut,

Thanks, I have overseen Fred said this as clear.
I still hope the individual movies inside a Saga will only be visible, if you are entering the Saga to reduce the number of items in the movie-wall.

A+
flugs

skank
16-12-11, 19:00
Salut,

Thanks, I have overseen Fred said this as clear.
I still hope the individual movies inside a Saga will only be visible, if you are entering the Saga to reduce the number of items in the movie-wall.

A+
flugs

It will , at least i get the idea when reading Fred-L's posting

zekeblue
16-12-11, 20:06
Salut,

Thanks, I have overseen Fred said this as clear.
I still hope the individual movies inside a Saga will only be visible, if you are entering the Saga to reduce the number of items in the movie-wall.

A+
flugs

+1

It seems a saga could serve as a group with user provided cover art. Then it would make most happy. So, in my case, concerts would all go in one saga and not show up on movie wall (only the one saga cover would) or in alphabet view. Am I misunderstanding?

zekeblue
16-12-11, 20:18
The purpose of yaDIS is not to manage other things than movies and tv shows.

For people who wanted to manage concerts, documentaries, shorts, etc... I added the possibility to add genre shortcuts to the main menu. It works well to access this kind of video from the main menu. Yes, it is not optimal. It was never intended to hide these videos from other movie screens. Also remember that a genre is displayed on the synopsis screen.

The selections (or groups) have a different purpose than genres. For instance, you can create a group named "Dad's not seen movies" or "Mum's favorites". Clearly, these groups can not be considered as genres. Using groups will not display "Dad's not seen movies" on the synopsis screens.

I hope some solution that meets most users' desires will eventually be found.,

Regarding the extra selections - thank for the pointer. I do in fact have genres for individual people's favorite movies and will then switch them to the new extra selections.

Perhaps you could consider giving each selection group the option of showing on the main wall and alpha views. This would be useful for the movies that are favorites of mine, but my wife doesn't want to even see that they exist! :wink: Then it could also work for the "non-movie" type videos. Edit: though if you are thinking of making individual movies within sagas not show on wall, then this is moot.

ammenRA
17-12-11, 02:29
Saga feature will be totally optional ;):D:D alriiight!!!!!!

Fred-L
17-12-11, 10:31
Salut,

Thanks, I have overseen Fred said this as clear.
I still hope the individual movies inside a Saga will only be visible, if you are entering the Saga to reduce the number of items in the movie-wall.

A+
flugs

Yes, individual movies that belong to a saga will not be displayed in the movie wall.

skank
18-12-11, 14:39
so Fred-L, has the start signal been given for it? :D

skank
20-12-11, 19:34
WOW
i see it is already at 100% :)

calahan
20-12-11, 20:16
WOW
i see it is already at 100% :)

Yeahhh...what a great Present for Christmas

Thanks very much,Fred-L:p

jsc1205
23-12-11, 18:38
If you dont mind me asking, when will this be released?

Thanks!

calahan
24-12-11, 21:45
Yes, individual movies that belong to a saga will not be displayed in the movie wall.
Thanks Fred-L its very nice with the SAGA Feature,but can i make this Feature
also use in the Genres,because i make Shortcuts for Movies ,Concerts,DOKU...
:confused:

doc1368
24-12-11, 21:54
Go on over to the yaDIS 2 discussion thread with your questions. This thread is dead now that v2.1.8 with Sagas has been released.